title-350492
@ 2005-11-30 - 19:51:28Evening all,
A rather controversial topic for this evening, as (as usual) have been catching up on my reading this week and just seen the bit about the report on rape victims. For those who have read it - would you agree it makes depressing reading?
It found that around one in three people believes flirtatious behaviour on the part of a woman makes her partially responsible if she is subsequently raped; same applies for drunkenness, and even more people surveyed think that revealing clothing also confers a degree of responsibility.
Am I wrong in thinking ( rather angrily) that this sort of pointless research contributes to rape rates remaining high and conviction rates remaining low. I mean come on - this survey is hardly likely to infuriate any potential rapists to the point at which they go out and look for a victim, but what are we to do with its information?
Tabloids (and braodsheets and mags like Marie Claire) don't have a problem - they can trumpet their disgust at the lack of compassion and understanding it seems to display (the more confused and hypocritical the attitude towards women, the louder the trumpeting, obviously).
But the rest of us are nowhere. It's infuriating to think that perhaps the people we know would shuffle their feet and say 'well, she *was* pretty pissed, and that dress didn't leave much to the imagination, sooo... cough...' if someone else we knew was attacked. But what do you do with said fury? If you're a woman, you might decide not to wear what you were going to wear tomorrow night after all; in which case you might feel afraid, pre-emptively guilty under the judgemental eye of the one-in-three, or just incredibly cross that other women might feel these things. Or incredibly cross that, seemingly, you should have to censure your own dress and social behaviour in order not just to protect yourself from harm, but to insulate yourself from blame for that harm.
People are aware that rape often occurs in situations involving booze and short skirts and uninhibited behaviour; women are aware that they can take steps to protect themselves; judges are aware that it is often very difficult to reach a conclusion as to whether or not consent was given, or implied.
This week a rape case was thrown out, when the woman alleging rape told the court she had been too drunk to recall whether or not she consented to sex. Also, two 16-year-old girls were jailed for perverting the course of justice after falsely alleging rape and kidnap. These are not likely to be the last such instances; both were taken very seriously up until a certain point, and while there's no arguing with the latter decision, there is doubt as to whether in the former case a decision should have been allowed to be made. People form opinions as to the effects of female inebriation and flirting based on the reporting of cases like these - Lets not forget the news today, where a young girl committed suicide after being raped last week... how does this sit with the above stories?
Leaving a laptop bag on the front seat of an unalarmed car makes you partially responsible, in your foolishness, for its theft; you could have put it in the boot and greatly decreased your chances of being a victim of opportunistic crime. Showing your legs while getting a bit pissed and making saucy comments isn't really comparable; vulnerability does not equate to culpability. You can only take responsibility for your own actions, not for the actions - violent or otherwise - of others. You might think someone is rash for walking down a darkened alley at night, but you wouldn't think of blaming them if they were mugged or stabbed - that rape is seen differently speaks volumes about how people still mistake it for an extension of normal sex in all cases.
You may make yourself more vulnerable to a certain type of rapist if you wear something skimpy, but that doesn't make skimpy clothing an irresponsible thing in itself. The suggestion that it is - that every drink, each bared centimetre of flesh and fluttered eyelash amounts to another point in favour of a rapist's partial exoneration - is a disgusting one, but not a surprising one. This is the public we're talking about, after all.
Sadly the main result of the survey in the short term will probably be to make women more afraid. As such, it's little better than the endless forwarding of a hoax email about a new date rape drug that makes you sterile.
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The arguement that getting drunk and being scantily dressed leads to women getting raped is howkum. Any man with a ounce of decency wouldn't accept a drunken woman's Ok to have sex as being reason to take advantage.
Working in a prison I see guys who use the arguement, she was asking for it.... Sorry I don't agree.
| rithompson [Member] http://www.flickr.com/photos/rithompson/ 30/11/05 @ 20:06 |
Hmm. Flirtatious behaviour, revealing clothing, drinking a little too much! I think I'm encouraging rapists with the first two!
01/12/05 @ 23:01
It is totally irrelevant what a woman wears or how much she drinks!! If a man takes advantage of a woman because of these or any other factors then he is responsible and therefore guilty of a crime.
Self control is a matter of self respect... whatever the circumstances.
What is less easy to deal with is the undeniable existence of false claims of rape.
R
| menhir [Member] 02/12/05 @ 17:15 |
I am in total agreement with Prydwen on this one -it is time men took responsibility for their emotions, behaviour and actions. Such surveys and acceptance of them as gospel do nothing to encourage a change in male personal emotional responsibility. Some societies answer to male weakness is to lock up their women or insist women hide themselves in public under their garb. And what the hell was 'the justice system' doing and saying throwing out a case where consent or otherwise could not be recalled because of levels of inebriation. I dread to think what our so called judicial leaders get up to; it is indeed highly dubious thinking and decision making IMHO.
| sleeper [Member] 06/12/05 @ 15:49 |
Phooo!!! Emotive topic CarpeDiem. As one who dresses as both man and woman, here's my contribution...
CasaB et al above are right. No reasonable or responsible man would ever take advantage of a woman who was drunk and/or provocatively dressed...but it's a massive and unreasonable assumption to make supposing that all men are reasonable. Let's not incite hatred here (it's a crime nowadays) and suppose that 99.9% of men are 'reasonable'. That means that approx 20,000 men in the UK are mentally unbalanced enough or downright wicked enough to take advantage in this situation.
So let's not label 'men' as the ones to blame, because we're not talking about 'men' in general but a subset of monsters.
Now, given that that subset of monsters exists, some responsiblility must lie with women to not give out misleading signals. We must not think like they do in the US, that no-one is responsible for their own actions.
If you wield a power (and believe me, women do wield a very real power), then you must be aware that power is a double edged sword that can cut both ways. Therefore it must be used sensibly. Those men who aren't monsters will know that the signals are for fun only, but the monsters don't see that.
Of course even dressing responsibly isn't always enough. Some rapists even seem to target old grannies! It's all very difficult to understand.
| sleeper [Member] 10/12/05 @ 17:56 |
Ummm! Surprised you didn't get more comments on this one CarpeDiem. {-/
Hope you are well and the world is turning in your favour.
Phil
25/12/05 @ 08:51
It found that around one in three people believes flirtatious behaviour on the part of a woman makes her partially responsible if she is subsequently raped; same applies for drunkenness, and even more people surveyed think that revealing clothing also confers a degree of responsibility.
It is so infuriatingly stupid and ignorant that one can only take a deep breath and decide exactly how it might be taken apart, sylable by sylable, sentence by sentence, until the nothing it amounts to leaves room to see the truth. Tabloids/Broadsheets/The Media machine - are all equally corrupt and play to the least reflective and most sensationalist in all of us. You, at least have thrown this nonsense back into the mire it oozed out of.
| ajnspencer pro http://www.devon-photography.co.uk 04/01/06 @ 11:13 |
Next on the list of ridiculous ways to excuse demented perverts...
How many court cases will now trot that c**p out as evidence...
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30/11/05 @ 20:02